non-statins and Co-Q10 depletion.

[BSGfan]

Since co-enzyme Q-10 depletion from statin use is thought to be the major
catalyst for neuropathy and other problems suffered by the statin injured, I would think it would be a good idea for the statin injured to try and avoid other drugs, such as beta blockers like Atenolol, which also reduce coenzyme Q-10.

Sadly, I suffered facial nerve damage from a Mevacor-Niacin-Lopid reaction, uncomfortable and annoying, but not serious. However, I also take Atenolol for hypertension and treatment of migraines, both of which worsened considerably once I went off of Atenolol. I was fortunately able to cut the dosage from 50 mg daily to 25 mg from exercise and diet. I am now experimenting with further reducing the dosage.

My doctor recommended Lisinopril as an alternative, but upon hearing anecdotal stories of rare but serious joint and muscle pain, and having spent several months recuperating from a disc herniation, I decided the possibility of more joint and muscle pain was something I wanted to avoid, so I continued with the Atenolol kind of as the lesser of two evils.

Just how severely does Atenolol deplete Co-enzyme Q-10 in comparison with a statin like Zocor? Should Atenolol users be supplementing with Co-Q-10?

[Allen1]

Hi there BSGfan,

I was on Atenolol 25mg (Beta blocker) and Perindopril (ACE inhibitor) for at least 10 years until they were changed to Bisoprolol 10mg and Ramipril 10mg, the changeover was done in low dose steps to allow my body to get used to them and have least impact/reaction. I have been on them for over 3 years and I believe the change was due to reported problems about Atenolol plus all the problems that I was having which now appear to be mainly due to statins.

A lot of the printed side effects for these drugs are similar to what I have been experiencing long before I changed to them, it could be that any of the medication that I take may be keeping the whole statin type side effect problems going.

Unless you or anyone else using Atenolol have a reaction to using Q10, I can't see any harm in taking it for a couple of months to see if it helps a little, that way you/they can make a decision from experience rather than guessing or wondering too much. I reckon 200mg a day or more would or could make a big enough difference to let you know if it helps, you could adjust the dose to what works from there. I wasn't aware of the Q10 problem via statins or Atenolol until about 2 years ago (too late I'm afraid).

All the best,
Allen

[Brian C.]

My first prescription of Atenolol ended up down the toilet years ago (I wasn't environmentally aware in those days ). Never had any truck with ACE inhibitors. The only prescription substance I use is good old glycerol trinitrate (nitroglycerine) for which I am duly grateful.

After a few crippled, despairing weeks when even the most moderate exertion brought on pain, I seem to be rising back to to the surface and am actually able to DO things again.

FIR sauna cabin delivered 6:30 am (!) this morning...at long last.


Brian.

[Ray Holder]

I believe that one's Q10 making process is too precious to interfere with by taking anything which might affect it. As life progresses, Q10 supply is reducing all the time, and nothing seems able to bring it back up again, so supplementation is the only way to maintain the level you need. I said to the medics who wanted me to take a beta blocker, that it appeared pointless to me to take something which opened the plug to reduce my Q10, while I was paying good money to try to keep the level up.

Before I had to take diuretics, which drop my blood pressure drastically, I regulated it by varying my Q10 dosage to suit, and I only needed a nitrate pill as well to keep it OK. I have so far resisted ACE inhibitors, preferring to take enough Q10 or QH and carnitine to keep my heart energy supply up without interfering with its internal regulating mechanism.

On cholesterol levels, I have spoken to two men this week whose cholesterol levels have been brought down to 3, mine is 8. there is a lot of trouble in store if that is now the approved official norm in medical circles.

Ray

[rkcannon]

Just curious if anyone has had their Vit D levels checked. There's quite a bit of research on how people are low, and it helps reduce heart disease, lowers blood pressure, increased energy, reduces cancer, etc. I just read about a new theory of cancer origin out of UC San Diego that says cells lose their communication pathways with other cells which causes or allows them to start acting like stem cells and become cancerous. The reason? Low Vit D!

Also B12 is supposed to help with energy, at least mental energy. Large amounts significantly reduce dementia. The best form is methylcobalomin.

Magnesium is very important for the heart and brain, and is commonly low. Magnesium Citrate and Mg malate are excellent forms to supplement. This helps protect from excess glutamic acid from MSG and various forms of food flavor enhancers. High glutamic acid has been shown to increase pain for example in fibromyalgia.

And iodine and selenium are very important in general, and commonly low. See donaldmiller.com- he's a heart surgery professor and very interesting. He has a .ppt on Vit D, Iodine and selenium.

And while I'm at it I'll mention ginger, esp raw, has very many benefits including reducing platelet stickiness as well as aspirin w/o side effects. Also reduces arthritis pain to some degree. Many enzymes in raw form esp to help digest protein.

Garlic also has some great benefits. Hawthorne berry supplements reduce blood pressure also.

With all these and moderate exercise, I can't imagine why a drug would be needed for blood pressure.

[cjbrooksjc]

Brian: Happy to hear your unit arrived. Let me know how you like it. I'm still waiting for my EM doodad. I'm still in a good deal of discomfort from the biopsy and can't use the FIR until the incision begins to heal.

rk: Thanks for the supplement coda. I would very much like to get off the BP meds entirely.

Best,

Brooks

[Brian C.]

Brooks :"Brian: Happy to hear your unit arrived. Let me know how you like it. "

Ahem, the saga continues Let's just say it is not operational yet. Meanwhile I hope somebody in particular has been fired!

Hope your pulser arrives PD soon.

Brian.